Hillary Can't Beat Trump Without The Progressive Vote
So let us, as a movement, extract binding commitments for our support. Of course in order for this to work we can not bluff, we need to be committed to either vote Jill Stein or not vote if she ignores us and yes if necessary be willing to throw the election to Trump.
Let's understand something from the outset, this is a game of chicken and we can win. Hillary & Bill will do literally anything to get her in the Whitehouse and a strong movement that extracts commitments for our support will prevail. The Clinton greed and averace is greater then any commitments they have made to those who bribed them.
So let us select a list of items which the American public supports anyway and hold her ultimately accountable in the ballot box. Simple choice, support the American people (progressives) and walk into the Whitehouse relatively easily or shun us and fight for your life in a battle you can easily lose. Here are a few subjects we need to get signed in blood commitments on.
1. TPP
2. Climate Change
3. Income Inequality
4. Break up Banks
5. Raise Taxes, dramatically in incomes over $250k
6. Single Payer Medicare for all
7. Campaign Finance reform
We need to make it clear to the DNC you are either with us or Trump will be president, we don't care so don't threaten us with that
Comments
They stole the election...
How do you suppose they would engage with a "binding commitment?"
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
Agree so we need to make it clear
that she needs to commit with clear concise no wiggle room statements where she is and a statement that if she does not honor her commitments then she should resign
But you agree we're dealing with a criminal enterprise
And so…
A) Why would you trust any agreement with a criminal enterprise, and
B) There is no constitutional mechanism for the type of binding agreement of which you speak.
The Queen of Lies will create any necessary imaginary exigency necessary for a toss-off excuse to violate any "agreement" that might be arranged.
There is no honor among thieves.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
I think there's a rule:
NEVER MAKE DEALS WITH UNTRUSTWORTHY PEOPLE. Just don't vote for her. Simple.
They would engage the signed agreement
for a cleansing ritual in a location never touched by sunlight.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
I think they calaulated their win...
using disaffected rethugs because T-RUMP. They don't think they need progressives. After all what will they do, vote for TRUMP? hahaha I came, I won, they don't matter.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Well, it's settled then, isn't it?
She won, she doesn't need real progressive voters.
So we should expect to see no more trolling from the Hillary Hoes at Daily Kos and HuffPo, then? I mean, if they don't need us, why the hell would they spend even one more second here,
begging usbullshitting usmocking ussupporting Her?Good question! I can't figure out why they're bothering with us
It's clear that the clintons themselves do not care about us or our votes in the least. They obviously believe they can win without us. Let's find out!
The idea that there is any sort of "binding promise" that could possibly be extracted from therm is so ridiculous it actually made me laugh!
Yup
That--and the ballot rigging that BOTH PARTIES will be engaging in--says to me that no one has a thing to lose by voting Third Party this year.
I can't stress that enough. It's my bottom line on most social media discussions. And it ends a lot more discussion that it continues, likely because people who never thought about it before are gobsmacked when the concept of that reality actually makes sense to them.
Oh but they do care!
And they're so proud of us. We should be so proud of us. We did it! We had our revolution!
And it was all worth it!
Because the Democratic party put everything Bernie wanted into the party platform! (GOS anti-link)
Yup, they put it right there in the platform, everything from getting Congress to repeal the Hyde Amendment to saying the TPP needs to be double-plus good before it becomes Party good. That ought to make us feel like childish holdouts now!
F the F'n D's
Er... No, they didn't.
I realize this is snark, and I'm certainly not going over to GOS to argue with them about it, but that's a blatant lie.
Even if you buy that the platform means something - Cornell West was on the platform committee, so I'll let him answer that claim.
In this 10 minute interview, he tells how the Clinton people voted down and/or watered down pretty much everything progressives wanted.
I should have put it in perspective
While it was clear my comment was snark, I didn't illustrate just how bizarre that article was. Not only did they put everything we could want into the platform, but also too the elections weren't rigged and there's nothing to substantiate the "Hillary is a liar" meme. We're just so unreasonable!
F the F'n D's
The Big Lie: if you repeat
The Big Lie: if you repeat massive and obvious lies often enough, it makes it TROO TM!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
LOL — “TROO” reminds me of Walt Kelly’s comic strip “Pogo”
and how his characters used to talk, over yonder in Okefenokee Swamp.
I wonder what he (Walt Kelly) would have thought of the 2016 election!
Al Capp of “Li’l Abner,” on the other hand, I’m pretty sure would be a Trump guy.
The country club wing of the
The country club wing of the GOP---the same sociopaths---will either sit it out or vote Clinton. And once selected by with those votes look for the Hildebeast to let her 1%banner fly.
That's always been the plan
Clinton needed to string Bernie along to keep the progressives engaged. It didn't have to be Trump. Imagine running against Ted Cruz. I thought Trump was going to usher in Armageddon. And John Kasich? Don't let him fool you, he's just as bad as Cruz.
The corporate overlords saw Trump try to shirk the SuperPACs and run a grassroots campaign - without the grassroots. They've been setting him up as a straw man for the past year, and now, just as soon as he's secured the nomination, they do an abrupt about-face and start tearing him apart. Anti-Trump hysteria is what the corporate overlords are feeding us today, to make us so scared we won't go 3rd party.
F the F'n D's
You've nailed it. Their
You've nailed it. Their biggest fear is of the voters breaking out of the carefully constructed, billionaire-bought, corporate-controlled two-party Greater vs Lesser Evil trade-off trap to vote 3rd Party in a clean election and bring in a Bernie or the Greens to resuscitate democracy just as their jaws are closing on the throat of the world via Trojan Horse 'trade agreements' establishing that all involved countries and people - their right of domestic law stolen for sale - must live under off-shored corporate law aimed at maximizing the anticipated future profits of thousands of involved corporations and billionaires, which profits the people of each country are 'legally' obliged to provide or be sued by possibly each company for perhaps hundreds of millions or hundreds of billions of dollars to supply these self-'anticipated future profits' regardless of circumstance, sanity or reality. We become chattels, only existing for their use and abuse.
Any degree of pollution, hazard and abuse may be inflicted on them, animals and their environment in the pursuit of this, as the people are to be told that they are 'legally bound' by this privately made unconstitutional traitor's act, giving them over to a global hostile corporate take-over bent destroying the life and life support system of Earth within decades for their own short-term increased profits.
The People's public tax-money (while any remains) will be used, as will their militaries, for the subjugation/destruction of any countries not economically captured by this thin excuse of the inherent right of democracy - entailed forever for those to come - being something which any temporary holder of public office somehow can claim to exclusively own during that period, in order to dispose of it as he/she pleases.
Nuclear Mutual Assured Destruction is being set up by President Obama, to be engaged in by the next corporate/billionaire President with both Russia and China, I'd guess in order to obliterate countries capable of defending themselves against the corporate evil and the US military, and it seems that North America and Europe can be sacrificed to this aim. Presumably, the self-appointed elites will remove themselves from this area - without even considering the effects on themselves of the large-scale radioactivity and nuclear winter which will be caused globally by such large-scale use of nuclear weaponry.
And whichever kills us all first, if The People will hold still for forever for stolen elections, they will also hold still to have the last drop of life-blood be drained from themselves, their children, their countries for the additional fattening of the parasites so stupid as to kill their hosts and the natural life support system required by all.
And because of continual propaganda, some people are actually still thinking of voting FOR this, by voting for either corporate/billionaire evil, rather than by voting for life and fighting for only the results of clean nominations and general elections to be recognized as valid...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I WILL vote for Trump
If it looks like $hrillary is leading in the polls by the beginning of November, I WILL vote for Trump.
So past time to cleanse the Democratic party of the Clintons, and their sycophants. They left me when the Clintons, Al From, DLC took over the party, and I registered as an Independent. A long, long, long time ago. Don't think possible to "work from within that party" - even the Republicans turned down dynasty ( well funded) candidate.
Was naive to believe in Hope & Change, knew that as soon as Rahm became COS, and Geithner at Treasury. Nail in the proverbial coffin when selling out to Lieberman ( insurance companies in CT), Pharmaceutical thugs, so Gov can't negotiate drug prices for Medicare.
Think warmonger Clintons, still looking to pad their own bank accounts & those of their friends, are much more dangerous to us, and the world, than Trump would be.
H/T to FDR: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." ( edited to add: AND THE CLINTONS!)
I toy with the notion
because if it is that fixed, who knows who a Green Party vote will actually count for? I also had another horrid thought--what if a bunch of newly-minted Green Party or NPA voters will have trouble voting at all down here?
I have been ready to DemExit, but I remember what happened to my primary vote. My Bernie vote was stolen. I want my GE vote to count.
People will have to bite the bullet.
If people are serious about not having HRC in the White House, they at some point are going to have to understand that this means a Trump presidency. I say the US (and the world) can handle that way better than an HRC presidency.
A vote for Green would be great if there was any possibility that Stein could win. We know that will not happen. While the Greens need enough votes for the party to be recognized, people also need to understand that beyond that, they are saying they could live with HRC as president. So, what is left? Voting for Trump.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
If the people who voted for
If the people who voted for Bernie - who won the nomination - voted for Jill, she'd also win. Although this won't happen if everyone keeps telling one another that they can't vote for her because she can't win - as she can't, if nobody votes for her and everyone chooses to vote for one or another of the evils. But if it's rigged and nothing will ever be done about it because it's always accepted as a done deal 'to be fixed next time' again, why bother voting at all?
If the so very blatantly and provably stolen Dem nomination is, as has become usual in the US, left to stand as a 'done deal', OF COURSE the cheating will continue.
If criminals are rewarded for their crimes and there are no repercussions, what else could be expected except that they grow bolder every time?
Damn it, we need Bernie to run Independently in a properly observed and enforcedly clean election... although now, votes would be split...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
When is the last time you saw an article in any
of the corporate media about Stein? If you have seen one, was it positive? She is not even included in most polls. The vast majority of the population never heard of her, and she is not going to get even the minimal press that Sanders got.
In 2012, Obama received 65,915,796 votes; Romney 60,933,500. Sanders 13 million is a drop in the bucket, so if Stein received every single one, it won't even be close. Plus Stein won't be on the ballots of x number of states, so it is more a matter of realism to not hang our hopes on Stein winning.
The rigging will also take a toll. For this year's primary, it is a done deal. There is not one Democrat who will call it out, especially as many of them were involved. It could be proven in black and white nine times over to the public, and it will not change anything. That alone should keep people from voting for HRC, but it won't.
I hope Stein gets enough votes to make the Green Party more viable, but we also need to defeat HRC in no uncertain manner, and it won't happen if all Sanders' supporters vote Green.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
If the Green Party doesn't get on enough ballots
to make it possible for Jill Stein to get 270 electoral votes, I'm voting for that orange beast. Hillary Clinton is too dangerous to take a chance over. I will do whatever it takes to keep her from winning, she is a warmonger.
The idea of Trump as POTUS, with his Teahag VP, terrifies me no end, as the internal hatred from the idiot rednecks in the south that support him will be horrible. But better to be hated in my own backyard than hated by the entire world. We've got to cleanse our own house first. Better we get this over with now than later. Under a second President Clinton, someone will drop a tactical nuke on our dumb asses, and we'll never get another chance to clean things up at all.
For Stein to get 270 electoral votes,
she would have to beat HRC in all the blue states which account for 190 votes. That may be possible in some, but not all. It is highly unlikely that Stein would win any of the red states. There are approximately 17 "swing states."
Again, the problem is name recognition, party identification and limited exposure. Then there is the rigging issue. The meaning of this statement is a clue of what will be happening:
As I live in what is considered a swing state according to this map, my only option to keep the Clintons out of the White House is to vote for Trump.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
That is being worked on, even as we speak.
Anonymous is battling intentional efforts by the MSM to ignore Jill Stein. Local affiliates are being persuaded to include the Green Party in their news. Local and state newspapers are being encouraged to publish articles about Jill. [The nytimes doesn't have as much influence as it would like.] Fox Business News [!] does interviews with 3rd party candidates.
Almost any city of any size has an alternate press and they could be encouraged to do articles about third parties. Local radio stations might like to do interviews about 3rd party politics.
We're working on it. I invite you to join us in the effort to publicize Jill's run for President.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
How and where in the
hell are we supposed to get:
in November? Who is going to observe? With this short amount of time remaining, the only way we can have this GE observed is to storm each and every precinct and demand to watch? OK! Me and what army?
I hear you--the refrain about "if everyone who ever said Candidate X can't win would just vote Candidate X, he/she would win!" is something I've lost count on how many times I've said it to others. But the truth of that statement is predicated on the notion that all ballots will be counted correctly.
And no, they're not. At least where I live. I saw it firsthand not very long ago.
A woman I never met stole my primary ballot for Bernie Sanders back in March. I knew she was stealing it the minute she handed me the photocopy of my official ballot that I was expected to cast, even though that weight of paper will not scan properly. There was a cop in the building, one other voter, a staff of little old ladies and gentlemen (gotta love those Election Day volunteers) and me. What do you think I should have done, while the obvious supervisor of this office during Early Voting (a local library) pushing me out the side door after she snatched my filled-out photocopied "ballot" out of my hands?
This is what people are up against. There is NO WAY we're going to get that shit observed formally at this late date? They've got us beat this time, we had no idea the lengths they'd go to this year.
THIS YEAR. This year, we have to stop the war whore. This morning--unlike the last couple days--I see no way to do that by voting for anyone other than Donald Trump. And that is destroying my soul. But he could rip my heart out and I still wouldn't vote for her. HER, she scares the fuck out of me. That "Libya" moment. The woman is a psychopath....
It wouldn't just be a Trump presidency,
it would be a republican party presidency with a republican party majority Congress.
I am well aware of that.
If HRC is elected, there would be the same mix, and she will be working on passing a Republican agenda. Trump, on the other hand, does not have the support of many of the Republicans, and the Democrats will fight him just on principle whereas they will back the Clintons (cf Bill Clinton's presidency).
There is still hope that we can flip the Senate this year, and if some of those Democrats who vote Republican can also be replaced, so much the better (eg. DWS). There are also a number of Republicans who are running that tend to hold more progressive views and should not be overlooked just because they have an (R) when running against a corporate Democrat.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
The first Democratic pre-convention "tell" was the
platform committee. "How can we get Rethug votes if the planks in our platform are palatable to progressives?" The second tell was Tim Kaine for Vice President. He's anti-choice, pro-TPP, pro "right to work" and pro Wall Street. The third tell was the convention itself "USA!! USA!! USA!!". War mongers on the podium, jingoism everywhere.
Oh, they'll pander to us...a little bit, anyway. But they have calculated that they don't need our votes. More disturbingly, they don't want our votes. They would rather owe Big Money everything than to even owe us a crumb or two (not that they'd deliver for us anyway).
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
How have they 'calculated' that, though?
Have they calculated it with actual raw voter reg data? Calculated how many votes they need to steal? Or do they just figure there are enough disaffected Goopers to cover the Bernie-voter spread? I don't think there are, so they better have them some actual raw data AND actual Bernie-voter final tallies, so they can estimate how many votes to flip. Otherwise, they're just pissing in the wind. I suspect a lot of her support consists of fence sitters, too.
There are a lot of things up in the air right now, but I really feel like one thing is for certain already--in THIS general election, Team Hillary is not going to get away with the kinds of shenanigans they got away with in the primaries.
Actually, they made up their
Actually, they made up their own votes and used corporate-media-backed propaganda to cover whatever they couldn't fake on their own.
Bernie won the Primary; they stole it because the people are either corporate assets or liabilities and do not matter either way, as there is already an excess of such expendable little people anyway and if they were worth anything, they'd be worth something in real money.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Blood commitments?
Whose? Theirs or ours? All they see is gold, or in this case, green. And power. What colour Is power anyway?
Haven't they proven we can't trust them on pretty much anything to help the great unwashed masses? And hasn't it been shown that when the middle class does well, then we really Do have a rising tide and can provide boats and space on them for everybody?
Sorry, mixing(or just fucking up) metaphors on a Sat morning before my first coffee and mixed greens. I'll be alright.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
it is wet dream of the left/progressives
that Hillary and her corrupt machine will bend to our pressure she will not... I don't think your average republican in going to vote for either.
They have hated her for 25 years
There are neocons like Robert Kagan supporting Hillary, but I still don't think she will pick up a lot of votes from anti-Trump Tea-GOPers. They have hated her for 25 years.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
she is getting Thatcherite conservatives
Even those who have hated the Clintons forever. I was shocked to read yesterday that Thatcherite fan boy and dedicated Clinton-hater Andrew Sullivan is back to blogging and proclaiming that he is fully on board and "with her" now -- because Trump terrifies him. He was upset that the first three days of the dem convention failed to focus on terrorism, but apparently he was appeased by all the flag waving and sabre rattling on the last day. Sigh.
People need to face it. The former Republican Party now consists of the overtly white supremacy contingency, and the Dem party is the new home of economic conservatives, the MIC and corporate ruling class. They might throw some bones our way on a few "social issues" since those are basically mainstream now, but the working people and poor in this country are truly out in the cold and will continue to be squeezed dry under democrats.
How many "we gotta vote for HillBlliary" posts so far, three?
Individuals explaining why THEY are voting for he, even though senseless to me, is one thing, but all this sudden "we" need to vote for her and 'hold her feet to the fire and make her do what we want' crap (yeah, like Obama, right?) is ridiculous. There was no 'we' last week. Just HillBillary supporters and us ignorant rabble that don't know what's good for us. Whatta difference a rigged primary makes.
The election isn't until November. I would have thought the big push to come here and tell us how we 'owe' them our votes or how Shills will govern as a true 'Progressive' would start around the beginning October. I guess they're trying to avoid the rush.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
there does seem to be a hasty rush
maybe they really are concerned. otherwise, why waste their breath so soon? for goodness sake, the convention is barely over and some didn't even wait until then. they are definitely Hillary boosters to be dropping in so quickly with their persuasion campaign. they seem to willfully ignore that we're still pissed at the moment. promoting unity is no salve to that.
as The Other Maven has suggested.
i say try again in two months when Clinton is really down in the polls. she doesn't need us now, right? that much has been made clear.
To the essayist:
Bugger off slug. Go and spread the Hillarian pox elsewhere. If you need extra you can swab some out of Kos' nostrils.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
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We need Jill Stein on the debate stage
That is the only way our list will get heard over the MSM noise machine. To do that she needs 15% in the polls. Send lawyers guns and money!
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
What do you mean 'we'?
I'm not a Democrat and after the spectacle of this rigged primary and anti-democratic The Hillary Show convention I consider the DNC to be a criminal enterprise. We implies unity and why would anyone unify under such a fascistic duopoly? Fear of a RW lunatic in the WH when both candidates qualify as dangerous psycho's is absurd. As for holding the Democrat's to your list, good luck. The reverse of everything you listed are the planks in their platform, it's the inevitable way forward. Why would people want to make their nasty global agenda 'stronger together'? We should all forget about it.
At least capforfun
Is not being all perky with the "we can be kingmakers" I have seen on other sites. If there is something that makes me want to go all 'Rican and cut someone is perkiness. (I can say this, I'm Puerto Rican, you can't.
)
Apart from that, I have to laugh at how gullible these people think we are.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
And how exactly are we supposed to trust her?
She has so many crimes that she has never faced up for. Serious war crime/crimes against humanity type crimes. I for one could never* believe anything she says.
*Unless it was an apology for her crimes attached to a sufficient act of contrition. Something akin to Seppuku would suffice. Keep in mind that would only get me to believe her sincere - there would still be no forgiveness - and it would also render the whole 'vote for her' thing moot.
Here's the biggest problem for me...
I can honestly say that she's a self-serving, lying, cheating, election rigging, scheming, money-grubbing war whore.
The only problem with that statement is the way it's phrased. You can clean it up (I guess) so that it same thing could be said in "polite company". You can be classier than I am in stating the facts about Shills. But there is one catch. Regardless if you say it honestly but crudely like me, or clean it up and phrase it in a way Miss Manners would approve, it is still the rock-bottom truth about Hillary Clinton (AND her hubby which she intends to inflict on us once again). And I will never get past that.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
She can make all the promises in the most direct, concise
language possible and I for one, will not believe her. She will turn hard right as soon as she's in office. The election was stolen from Bernie and I want my 2700 dollars back. I will be voting for Stein but in the end it will not make a difference since Hitlery controls the election apparatus.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
No agreements with the Clintons will be honored
they only respond to bribes, and we don't have that kind of money.
"You'll lose unless you give us what we want" is pointless. They will NEVER give us a damned thing.
"You'll lose" is the best we can hope for, and what we need to work towards.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Hillary lies. Period.
We cannot trust anything she says. UNLESS those words essentially say:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1IQYD4Uew]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
We have to accept that it's not about votes
it's about the narrative. Hillary doesn't have to beat Trump, but enough people have to believe her when she says that she beat him. What killed the Soviet Union? Not that it didn't work, not that it lied, but that the people didn't believe in it and stopped working for it. They went through the motions to avoid repercussions, but they didn't work.
Vote Green or don't vote, in the end either one will be equally effective. But don't work more than absolutely necessary, and above all don't go into debt. Don't give them any power over you. That is what they want, that is what they fear, that is how to defeat them.
On to Biden since 1973
I wouldn't trust Medusa's oaths, even if they were signed in
her own cold blood.
Same list, different president
We will use the list, but not with HRC. It won't work with her or her lords and ladies.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass