On the idea that Trump's finger on the nuclear button is more scary than Hillary's

One of the major reasons why I identify with the political Left is my habit of questioning pronouncements from voices of authority. In a society dominated by political activists representing the corporate elite, this is generally a good attitude to have if you have a strong personal desire to know The Truth.

This is why I was disappointed to hear pro-Bernie voices pushing the Clinton campaign's meme that Donald Trump's finger on the nuclear button is much scarier than the thought of Hillary Clinton's finger on that button:

[video:https://youtu.be/j1vlMUfR_Wc width:500 height:306]

It was sad to listen to hear these long reliable Berners fall for a Clinton manipulation that they probably should have recognized from a few months earlier, back when Clinton's strategic team got a bunch of Democrat economists to ridicule Bernie Sanders' failure to 'understand' how current federal law works re: banking industry regulation.

Briefly, they reported that Sanders seemed confused during a NY Post Editors interview when he was asked certain questions re: the purview of the FED vs. the Treasury. In actual fact, he was confused, but not due to any lack of expertise on his part, but only because he was being asked questions that reflected the ignorance of his questioners. In order to embrace the conclusions of his accusers, you had to simply assume that they were right about their essential allegations, which they were not. (This is an aside, not a quote)

We are now seeing the same gambit being played on Trump as the dangerous man with his finger on the nuclear button. The 'evidence' being cited includes some interviews in which Trump is reported to have asked certain military experts, "Why can't we use nuclear weapons if we have them?"

The Clinton spin on this, of course, is that he could not possibly have asked such a question unless he is an ignorant rube who actually doesn't have enough common sense to already know the answer to his question. It is precisely the same thing they did to Bernie's NY Post interview.

The possibility they aren't giving any consideration at all is that this is Trump's method of questioning the experts he is consulting to see how they would answer the question, to see if they've thought out all the angles, to see if maybe there are some reasons military professionals have in their minds why they should or shouldn't be used in certain situations.

It could very easily have been a completely innocent question that was being asked simply to encourage his consultants to expound on all the dimensions of the question, "when, if ever, should nukes be used?" A method of soliciting information, not an expression of a hardened predisposition to use them at any opportunity.

The important question that Cenk and John did not ask themselves is how they are maybe being played by the Clinton Campaign once again. Remember the 'artful smear' charge she leveled at Bernie prior to Iowa?

That accusation was intentionally made with emotion to deflect attention from the ultimate truth that the very accusation they were making was in itself part of an artful smear of Bernie Sanders. It was a truth they wanted so badly to hide from media attention and found the ideal way to do that.

That is what we are seeing once again re: this claim that Trump is the ignorant, reckless foreign policy rube who is actually eager to employ the nuclear option because he is too stupid to understand the grave consequences.

This meme is being pushed to distract attention away from the established historical fact that Hillary Clinton is far more likely to get us into a nuclear war than Trump is.

This, because of Hillary's long-practiced tendency to reach for the most adventurous and provocative military responses to 'developments' that involve Russia or China.

The big difference between the two? Hillary is far more likely to escalate tensions over some development than Trump is, which is the only kind of scenario that will ever lead either of them to be tempted to push the button.

Even though Bernie was not guilty of any of the innuendo and misrepresentations they were making about him, the Clinton campaign was nevertheless able to tag Bernie with the 'reputation' among certain categories of voters that he was incompetent on the financial industry, compared to Clinton, even though that was actually never true.

I would like to suggest to you now that precisely the same political gambit is being played in the effort tag Donald Trump as a dangerously incompetent mad man who is likely-to-be-reckless with nuclear weapons.

There is actually no evidence that this is true, but only an interpretive slant that is being offered that only seems persuasive if you already embrace the accusers fundamental (fallacious) claim because you assume that the accusers are qualified to make and are disposed to make a fair judgment of the facts.

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tourniquet's picture

my response over the last couple of days to people posting OMG posts on facebook. why would i swallow this when the clinton campaign has proved itself demonstrably full of shit on several occasions in the last few months re: sanders?

interestingly, i was told by more than one person that they had actually heard "the interview" during which trump "asked about nukes three times"... and i had to explain to them that this claim came from joe scarborough, not a trump interview. actually, three different people claimed to have seen "the interview". and they were completely full of shit.

completely full of shit, apparently, comes naturally to clinton supporters. go figure.

ed: not that they'll be educating themselves anytime soon (i'm not that naive) but i've been tossing this link at people, from ontheissues.org. it's got a whole lot of trump on military shit, and not one bit of it has anything to do with nukes.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

t rump will have his own personal nuke button. There is a protocol that even the POTUS has to follow even if he gives the order it does not mean it will be followed. Imo hrc would have a much easier time getting the button pushed.

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Lookout's picture

My amazement is how they played softball with him during the primary. Letting him call into all the shows, and asking powder puff questions. Now pivot to T-rump the monster! Is it all a scam to slide the $hill into office to assure the TPP? Or was it an inside Clinton deal to get him to run in the first place? Which tin hat should I wear? Oh my.

tin foil hat.jpg

Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg

or maybe this one?
tin-foil-hat-3.jpg

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

hrc might have her own nuke button though. Like she had her own computer server.

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tourniquet's picture

my-mind-is-full-of-fuck.jpg

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

tourniquet's picture

trump is a capitalist. that's his being. he's a narcissist capitalist and his ego revolves exclusively around the fact that he is richer than you, motherfucker!

guess what happens when you start nuking people...

money isn't even great asswipe in the stone age. why would trump fuck himself like that, against everything he lives and breathes, against everything that has ever fueled his image of success? no, this whole nuke thing is propaganda, and if people were curious at all they'd see it.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

Big Al's picture

Is that what they're doing. Can't watch the video because I don't want to listen to them.
Certainly this coming out is all about politics.
But Trump is nuts, whatever Clinton is. So who knows how that would translate to using nukes. It's not a gamble I want to take. I don't want him near my grandchildren, let alone the nuclear codes. Same with Clinton.
I think you're right, it's a political ploy and those two might be falling for it. But the real political gambit is forcing a debate as to who is worse, Trump or Clinton, when both are completely unacceptable. The lesser evil, or greater evil in this case, debate. That's where we really lose.

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tourniquet's picture

is anti-DNC, pro-pragmatic-clinton. i think he's falling back on his anti-conservative stance, and good on him if he had no other option.

too many nominally-progressive voices are diving towards clinton and the center instead of pushing left. cenk is a media person, after all, and selling himself for the green party at this point is (sorry..) probably a losing proposition. they haven't managed to get on the ballot in half the states; gotta keep your media cred.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

if it were a choice between Clintons & Trump - he'd vote for Clintons.

Sick and sad. How good people can be so deceived.

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Big Al's picture

I mean, if one is willing to vote for Clinton they must have a certain attitude about her that I certainly can't relate to. I know, and understand, what she's done, therefore I can't vote for her. It's that simple.
That's the thing, Cenk knows what she's done. And yet he'll still vote for her. I just don't think that's productive.

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And he cites an anonymous source! I was suspicious right away because Scarborough could not tell us the answer to the question.

BTW it's obvious that an illegal pre-emptive attack on Iran would have to include the use of nuclear weapons, but somehow this never gets mentioned when the talking heads are calmly discussing a war of aggression against a country that never attacked anybody.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Meteor Man's picture

Obama and Hillary are both exceptionally accomplished war criminals. Is it possible that Trump can or would exceed the war crimes committed by Obama and Hillary? Sure. Is it likely? I dunno.

Let me check in with my Magic 8 Ball. I'll get right back to you.

http://www.ask8ball.net

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

WindDancer13's picture

During a time last night while I was playing a difficult part in the online game I play, I was also discussing HRC vs Trump nuke chances with a friend. Unfortunately becasue my attention was split, I was not able to address the issue properly. However, I made note of some of the wording my friend used regarding Trump and Clinton.

This is the kind of thinking that "normal" people are exhibiting. My friend thinks that Trump would be the greater risk because he is "belligerent and confrontational." I disagreed, and pointed out what someone else mentioned here that Trump would have a much harder time getting those with the big red button to follow such an order. HRC (and Obama), on the other hand, is currently trying to provoke Russia and China. Think about how GWB started setting up people to accept an attack on Iraq. I think you will see a lot of similarities.

As for HRC, my friend actually used the following phrases: "political nuance and reality," "respects her party and popular opinion too much to make those types of choices [war] whimsically," "acts rationally," "rational actor," and "well aware of the implications of her actions."

My friend was a Sanders' supporter, and I suggested to him that he had not done enough studying of HRC's record. He admitted as much. The next time, we get in such a discussion, I will just die (in game) and park somewhere that I can safely discuss the issues. The point being that before making a decision that could affect all of us, he needs more facts.

I have announced here several times that I will vote for Trump if it be comes necessary to keep the Clintons out of the White House, but that is a bit extreme for a lot of people as many are willing to accept the Clintons. So I have been trying to suggest that he take a look at Green.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

i prefer to ignore the television when my partner has MSNBC on but yesterday while i was having a snack i sat in my lounge chair and saw the opening segment of Lawrence O'Donnell. i couldn't believe that the Trump hysteria has decided to go with the nuclear fear of his finger on the button. OMG, they even had experts to help spread the fear and concern. good gawd, we have three more months this?? how much more extreme is the nonsense going to get? i want it done already.

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More than once, high-ranking retired officers have declared that unlawful orders from Trump will be refused. If Trump knew anything about history, he'd recognize that no leader rules when his military is opposed.

Remember: it was the political officer of the Russian sub who refused to authorize the use of nuclear weapons when cornered by the US Navy in 1962. We'd not be here now if he'd agreed.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.