Open Thread - Wed. April, 27, 2016 - Neoliberalism Part 2

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Last week's Open Thread essay, which was inspired by an excellent article titled, The Zombie Doctrine, by British writer, George Monbiot, we discussed the curse of neoliberalism. It was the first in what I had hoped to be a series on neoliberalism

Although the ideology of neoliberalism has been around since the 1930's, it took decades before it took hold in the United States. So first, we must understand the background on modern neoliberalism in the United States. Neoliberalism, as we now know it, began to gather popular support among the elites in the United States in the 1970's and first applications of this economic ideology occurred in the 1980's by Ronald Reagan in the United States and Margaret Thatcher in Great Britain. Since then, neoliberalism has become enshrined through such organizations as the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization. Bill Clinton was the President who put neoliberalism into effect with a number bills he pushed through Congress and subsequently signed.

So what is neoliberalism? This short definition probably sums up neoliberalism about as succinctly as possible.

Neoliberalism is a small-state economic ideology based on promoting "rational self-interest" through policies such as privatisation, deregulation, globalisation and tax cuts.

I wondered how we got to this world view when I came upon this article written by Andrew Bacevich way back in 1998 and titled, The Irony of American Power. The first real impacts of the neoliberal ideology occurred during the Bill Clinton administration. It was then that financial institutions became deregulated, along with the deregulation of the media, NAFTA, and the first real shredding of the social safety net. Clinton openly supported these actions and they are part of the neoliberal ideology.

If the prospect of creating structures of peace provides the ostensible inspiration for the neoliberal preoccupation with trade and investment, anxiety reinforces that hope. American well-being, neoliberals believe, depends upon continuous economic growth. Economic expansion, in turn, depends on increasing the American share of the global economy, especially in rapidly developing regions such as Latin America and the Asia-Pacific.

snip...

Neoliberalism has been exported through the organizations cited above and through militaristic regime changes in order to install leaders who will be amenable to the spread of global corporatism. What stands out to me, as a retired land use planner, is the first sentence in the quote below. This capsulizes the voraciousness of unconstrained global capitalism, or neoliberalism.

For neoliberals, there is literally no alternative to growth. Abundance mutes tensions and papers over contradictions, in many cases the byproducts of past liberal experiments. Thus, behind the Clinton Administration’s acknowledgment of economic interdependence lies the fear that any substantial lapse in economic expansion could well ignite a crisis for which modern liberalism, bereft of fresh ideas, will be without response. Failure to secure expansion abroad invites calamity at home.

When it comes to military affairs, neoliberals strike appropriately progressive attitudes, professing to look forward to the day when economic forces will render military power obsolete. In the meantime, the imperative of maintaining the order required of a highly interdependent world economy prods them to use force with notable frequency. The emphasis is on using military forces not to win wars but as an international constabulary. Yet a fully effective implementation of this approach would anticipate and forestall rather than merely react. Thus, for neoliberals, the lure of using American military power not simply to quell disorder but to prevent it in the first place can become irresistible. In this regard, although hardly noticed by the American public, a recent military exercise provides the best illustration to date of the evolving neoliberal paradigm for the role of U.S. forces after the Cold War.

As I was writing last week's essay, I could not help but think how the myth of American exceptionalism has allowed us and the rest of the world to become swallowed up by the neoliberal ideology. This economic philosophy has been promoted in the United States since the late 1970's and has proven over the decades to be an ideology that has failed most of the citizens of this country and those of countries to which we have and are continuing to export this form of economic terrorism.

The basic elements of casino capitalism and its death wish for democracy are now well known: government should only exists to protect the ruling elite; self-interest is the only organizing principle of agency, risk is privatize; consumption is the only obligation of citizenship; sovereignty is market-driven; deregulation, privatization, and commodification are legitimate elements of the corporate state; market ideology is the template for governing all of social life, exchange values are the only values that matter, and the yardstick of profit is the only viable measure of the good life and advanced society.

The key words for me in the quote above were "its death wish for democracy." This is exactly what I believe we are now seeing in our electoral process along with nearly every other governmental action. In future essays, I hope to explore the far ranging impacts of neoliberalism and how they have adversely affected our lives, our economy, our ecology, and the future for ourselves and those who come after us.

As always, this is an Open Thread, so please do not feel you must limit your comments to the above essay.

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Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." - Edward Abbey

Edited to add: This quote bothers me... "...risk is privatized."

It would seem to me that risk has been socialized (i.e. we taxpayers pay for any risk) and profits have been privatized. Am I misunderstanding the meaning of this in this context?

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gulfgal98's picture

of Henry Giroux's article, the privatization of risk is referring to individual risk. In other words, government is to serve the corporations while individuals are expected to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. What we are seeing right now is the shredding of the social safety net, thus privatizing individual risk, while at the same time, bailing out of wealthy individuals and corporations via tax cuts, bank bailouts, free trade agreements, etc.

I may have misread what Giroux intended there but that is my take on his quote. Please correct me if you or anyone else reads this differently. Good catch, Martha.

As to the growth for the sake of growth, we city planners were taught that in order to survive, cities must continue to grow and expand their tax base. Long ago, I came to the conclusion that growth and sustainability are basically incompatible ideas.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

across natural and artificial geographical boundaries; while labor is entrapped.

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Euterpe2

as medieval serfs were.

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Except serfs could not (in theory) be evicted. Wink

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Euterpe2

thrownstone's picture

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

"...we city planners were taught that in order to survive, cities must continue to grow and expand their tax base."

Somewhere along the line we (the collective "we") have been sold on the notion that "stability" = "stagnation"....

As for my take on the risk comment... I don't know... perhaps it is just the way I am reading it.

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Lenzabi's picture

Under Neo-liberalism, profit is privatized, risk is socialized, so they rake in the cash, we get stuck with the mess, and clean up bills, etc.

An apt cartoon would be democracy in a hospital bed tubes and wires attached and breathing house, people looking worried and well wishing, and the neo-liberal DNC family member doing the same while secretly trying to yank the power-cord out of the wall.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

He was also brilliant. The kind of brilliant where he could pass his college math finals without attending lectures or cracking a book. (He went on the GI Bill.) And brag about it 10 years later. As a little girl, I adored him. Sitting together in front of the fireplace of our suburban starter house, he challenged me to think about the size of the universe, the number of stars. Infinity. (This was before we learned the universe might not be infinite, and might be plural.) Infinity, a mystical thing. Bigger than we imagine. Bigger than we CAN imagine. Later, in the 1960s, our house zinged daily with politico-emotional tensions. The War. (Vietnam, then. How small it looks from here.) Race riots. (Commuting, he carried a lead-filled cosh in the car.) The environment. At one point I asked him how he thought the population and economy could keep expanding infinitely on an earth of finite size. He replied that new technology would always make a way. In the federal civil service, he rose as high as you could go then. One of the few things he told me about, in his day to day work, was the task of convincing others that foreign aid to build a dam in India would best be spent on US contractors with the latest equipment, rather than local people, who wanted the jobs but would take longer to finish. For his last few years in government, my father did little actual work for his substantial salary; he had offended one too many political appointees, but having done nothing really wrong, could not be fired. He put both of us kids through college (back when many middle class families could do that, if they saved). Retiring from 30 years in government with a full pension, he became vice president of a bank for another 10. He lived long enough to lose money on Enron. The anniversary of his death brings forth these sort of thoughts. He was a man, taken for all in all. He dumped our mother after 30 years of marriage. He was an economist.

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Euterpe2

gulfgal98's picture

were part of the greatest generation. This one thing in your post stood out for me.

At one point I asked him how he thought the population and economy could keep expanding infinitely on an earth of finite size. He replied that new technology would always make a way.

It is interesting because that is very similar to my 93 year old mother's answer when I bring up climate change to her. She is still of the belief that we can engineer our way out of these issues. It must have been part of what they experienced in their youth and middle years when technology seemed to be the answer to everything.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

And in the years just after WWII, all things seemed to be possible through a combination of invention and wise administration. The rising tide was lifting many little boats.

Yet all my life, I've fumblingly turned over the strangeness of how a person so brilliant as my father was could be so irrational on the subject of infinity. He connected me with the concept -- which hit me at that young age like a spiritual revelation -- yet denied its implications. The part you unerringly picked out is the heart of that particular conundrum and also a microcosm of my still conflicted feelings about the man. There is a lot more to say about him; the above (and I hope no one thinks it uncharitable) is not so much a conventional evaluation, as a draft for a poem.

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Euterpe2

Redstella's picture

really reminds me of my father as well, the details are different of course but that ( I call it) naive belief in 'science' was the hallmark of that generation. And why not, they saw the world transformed by air travel, and plastics. While I, although educated in science, turned toward emotional connection. Was against the (vietnam) war, moved to an intentional community, sought consensus, gave up middle class aspirations ( until growing children demaded something more...).

Now, we have Bernie. And now, it appears that America wants Trump and Clinton. Looks like a fight, doesn't it? I remember fighting when our young lives were on the line with the draft. I wonder what our American life will bring. I see visions of the last gasps of neoliberalism with either Trump or Clinton and us in trenches, being arrested and our lives in chaos. i wonder how best to help. Of course, the Earth will suffer. I hope there will be helpers to tell us how to manage in the coming years. I feel like we need help here.

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Gerrit's picture

doing what the great Paulo Freire called conscientization, which means consciousness-raising, except much shorter to say :=)
C99 could provide a valuable public service if we could:
1) help folks become more conscious of how they have been tricked and trapped and trained (oops, runaway alliteration :=) by neoliberalism,
2) help folks become more conscious of democratic-socialism,
3) help folks become more conscious of all the many ways to change the economic structure of their local economy, and,
4) help folks become more conscious of ways to change their personal finances such that they can escape the neoliberalism trap and make their own household more free financially.

And then on the 7nth day, we shall rest :=) Enjoy your day, folks,

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3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

gulfgal98's picture

Thank you. I try to post enough to get a conversation started if need be. If I was not doing Open threads, I would probably flesh these out a little more.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
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riverlover's picture

There are use fees, use charges, taxes on some charges, other taxes on other charges. My electric bill is fascinating. And I buy power from the same company that owns and maintains to power lines. With NY de-regulation of power, I could opt to buy power from elsewhere on the grid, still pay for the line charges, etc. I (lucky soul) have day rate electric charges and night rate. I know in Ontario, rates change by hourly blocks. For me, night rate is about half-price (time to run the clothes dryer). My electric company, New York State Electric and Gas, is now owned by a company in Spain. The power plant on Cayuga Lake is coal-fired. A motion was furthered to convert it to gas, rejected by the State, so I think the power plant is slated to be "mothballed". It does not run all the time now. Gas service is not available in my area, no gas lines. Wink On a heating conversion of my house I switched from total electric to a propane tankless boiler system, not the best idea I have had for an alternative fuel.

TV service was okay with analog, when it went to digital, those of us in more-remote places lost signal, and were forced to cable or satellite service.
When my father was in the hospital, dying, 20 years ago, he commented "the price of cable TV is sure going up". Dog know how little it was then. I can't afford the >$5K they want to run cable to my house from the damned road (it only came up my road 10 years ago). Fired DirecTV, when my monthly charges doubled the second time.
It seems like basic phone, power, water (thank dog I am on my own well) services get more particulate, first by increasing competitors for the service, and then mergers back to the original and full price control. Pretend choices, the 21st century has been quite good with that. Neo-services.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

The US is in a very privileged position in the world. As the biggest economy (well not anymore) we get to do things that no other economy can do, as there is room at the top for only one country. We have had a net inflow of capital from around the world, while the rest of the world has been starved for capital. When we invest our capital outside of the US we institute draconian requirements on other countries to protect our investments. When we tank the world economy, investments flock to the US because it is perceived as the safest environment. We set the standards, we initiate the global trade pacts. We have the default currency for international transactions. And we protect this whole economic hegemony with military hegemony.

If you are at all playing attention you know that the rest of the world is waking up, and now has the economic clout to change things. The question is: how will this play out? We are desperate to keep the EU united as that is an important part of the puzzle. When that breaks down you will see European countries starting to align with China, India, Russia, etc. This will be a huge break in the dam.

Just to, hopefully, jolt you as to what is happening in a developing world here is some interesting data. The best index for economic development is the amount of concrete poured, and of course you need cement to make concrete.

Millions of metric tons of cement: source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cement_production)

China -- 2,500
India -- 280
Russia -- 69
Brazil -- 72

Total BRIC -- 2,921 Million Metric tons

USA -- 83 Million Metric tons

If you look at any other large volume construction material, or even food production you get similar results. The US has been monotonically decreasing year by year in its share of world GDP in dollars. But we all know that the US GDP in dollars is extremely biased to the US. It includes the "investment sector", the "defense" sector and an overly inflated health care sector.

Fasten your seat belts, as they say, may you live in interesting times.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

regarding different economic systems, and different political systems, it behooves us to begin the process of education. In spite of the fact that polls are showing an increased acceptance of "socialism", most responders have no actual clue what it really means. New economic paradigms must needs be underpinned by a good grasp of what it means to be truly egalitarian, and studying Marxism, anarchism, and communism, etc, can give people the ability to see what is possible.

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Few people know or care that there are several long standing schools of thought employing Marxian analysis. Most only think of the old Soviet Union or China. There is a productive tradition, over 50 years so I guess I can call it a tradition, centered around The Monthly Review here in the USA. The Frankfurt School has added excellent analysis and theory. Their predictions about how late stage monopoly capitalism would play out are very accurate - certainly more accurate than the neoclassical blather of academic "economics"

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Giroux is always a good read. While we all know in our gut what a neoliberal is, nice to see it spelled it. I've been scarce for a bit. Sick. Being treated for pneumonia, but they are in the process of diagnosing it. The doctor and I don't think it is, but he took chest xrays and gave me meds.

Went over to dkos today to see LD. How very, very sad. When they thought they were fighting for Bernie, I could understand the compunction to stay. Now, I haven't a clue why they stay. Kos doesn't care if Bernie people leave. He wants guests in his home that he likes, and he doesn't like people who want to disagree with him. I did read in this mornings BNR that Jane said again in response to Trump that Bernie would NOT run as an Independent. He "said" he wouldn't, and he won't. I'm not so sure with so much at stake that keeping his word is the noble thing to do. I guess he is balancing the movement against his career? He's 74. I know he hasn't squirreled away millions, but I would think they both have substantial pensions. I don't see Vermont firing him. I don't know how we can change the rules without killing the machine, and I don't know how we can kill the machine without changing the rules. Bernie won every state that had "OPEN" primaries. Maybe Bernie's kick off should have been for everyone in every state change to Democrat NOW. When the election is over and once we can change the rules, then change to whatever you want to be. The voting restrictions and fraud is how they beat him.

Platform? Who the fuck cares. Hillary could promise me my own circus, and I sure as hell wouldn't believe her. He thinks he can find a way to hold them accountable? WTF does that mean? Run a primary against them? What a sad, sad morning for our country and our kids.

flagboundhands_06.jpg

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

gulfgal98's picture

I hope you and your doctor will figure our what is wrong with you soon and treat it so you can make a full recovery. Get well soon, dk!

Markos did not let the mask slip. He ripped it off on March 15 and what it revealed of his real face was not a very pretty thing.

I think Leipar and the rest who continue onward are doing so in spite of Markos and the Clinton echo chamber that dkos has become. I believe Leipar feels a need to stay on behalf of Bernie and I applaud him for doing so. Meanwhile the ball will continue to be spiked and calls from the Democratic establishment for Bernie to drop out will increase. Bernie owes staying in the race to every citizen who has yet to have the opportunity to vote.

Meanwhile, I cannot stand to listen to Clinton. Her arrogance grates on my last nerve. She is the prime example of the corruption of our political system and I do not care if the Dems lose in November. The people will suffer under either Clinton or the Rethugs. It does not matter any more. The establishment has spoken, but the revolution will continue. It must continue.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Kos said join the (D) party because if you want to make change "you do it from the inside". It's like crashing the gate only different.

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when there is also powerful pressure from without.

If at all.

People who go into a corrupt system hoping simply with their good intentions to change it from within either become fairly comfortable as creatures of the system (occasionally, perhaps, wringing their hands but always finding this is not the moment or they are not the one who can take a stand). Or they are, sooner or later, spat out.

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Euterpe2

Raggedy Ann's picture

It's like crashing the gate only different.

There's no crashing going on over there. Only holding people in to be abused. I broke out!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

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Beware the bullshit factories.

gulfgal98's picture

It is impossible to change something as corrupt as the Democratic party from within. Markos, as usual, is totally wrong. Once within the gates, he now is guarding the gates. He did not change the system, the system changed him or revealed his true self. If Markos had really wanted change, he would not have supported the epitome of corruption, Hillary Clinton. He is part of the corrupt system.

Real change never comes from within. It is always forced from the outside.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

enough "tent" to include assholes like the Clintons, Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu, Schumer, and every other DINO, Blue Dog, "New Dem" and Kos just shows how trying to change the Party from within is a lost cause. To make a heavy lift like that, the object has to at least be rolling a little your way-see the Rs. The sad fact is, the Ds are rolling in the same direction as the Rs.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

only happens within. We succumbed. Look what happened. We must force change from outside. It is key.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Redstella's picture

we were told that. I thought that was true. Look what happened -somehow we were all corrupted. Stockholm syndrome. I don't believe it anymore. We have to stay OUTSIDE.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

We must work from the outside. Wink

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Gerrit's picture

stand much greater chances of success when we begin from the ground up - from our local communities and homes up. We force change at the state/provincial and federal levels when numbers of local communities force them to adapt to OUR change. Heh, heh, heh :=)

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Raggedy Ann's picture

It's the resilience movement, after all. We can do this!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Gerrit's picture

phrase is found in becoming more resilient. He just "forgot" to tell us that part :=)

Goodbye, Mr Make-Believe President: good luck at the UN, where you can continue to blow smoke up people's arses all day long.

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3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

The Mongolian Death Flu has been ripping through SE MI, and both hubby and I fell victim (it's apparently a variant Type B). Fevers of 103 and above and a horrible cough and congestion, fatigue, lasts over a week.

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Gerrit's picture

a speedy recovery. There is a nasty chest flu going through Ontario - including Lovie, who picked it up in Toronto and is mending slowly, slowly. Take care of yourself eh. Have a good day my friend,

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

Lookout's picture

Hey gg,
You're a trend setter. Looks like it's about the same article but it should reach a lot of eyes over on alternet.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/neoliberalism-destroying-almost-ever...

Just want to say we need to keep good heart today. Let's keep working. Bernie holds a town hall and a rally at Purdue today, and then to Bloomington tonight. He is the energizer Bernie. I think this image speaks for me today:

don't Bern out.jpg

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Bernie is quite the guy. Quite the guy.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

gulfgal98's picture

Somehow I missed this latest article by Monbiot. Sad Thank you for sharing it. Good

I had to pull today's Open Thread together on short notice as I have not been on line much lately. We have been entertaining more company and the gg B&B needed cleaning afterwards. LOL

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Raggedy Ann's picture

We are so uneducated on neoliberalism and what it truly means to us as a people - as a country. I'm all about abolishing the government if all they are here to do is protect the 1%. Fk that!

Bottom line, as I've screamed on this site all morning, I will NEVER vote for HRC. I will NEVER agree to hand that kind of power over to her because that's all she is about - not you, not me, not we, the people - she is only about herself. Fk that, too!

Have a beautiful day!!!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

gulfgal98's picture

The Clintons are only about money and power. They use the power that they have amassed to continue to enrich themselves financially. They are heartless grifters who are all about graft and corruption and I refuse to support them in any way possible, even if it means Trump in the White House. I am done with them and have no guilt feelings whatsoever about it.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Raggedy Ann's picture

is a bit disheartened today. I told her to keep her head up. She is a woman of color and detests HRC. (sidebar: I work with many women of color - not just AA's but Indians, Phillipinos, local Hispanics - and none are for HRC) We spoke of the money the Clintons are hoarding and I reminded her that HRC could have used some of her money to help Flint out in a meaningful way - to replace pipes or whatever - but she didn't even offer. This is not a human I can support - never will.

You rock, gg!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

gulfgal98's picture

Just to let you know, I think you rock too! Dirol

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

I know it's a great OT, but I can't yet focus reading it. I am still so darn disappointed about the results yesterday. I damn well will not support a Hillary Clinton Democratic regime. I either stay silent, join movements or run away. I hope she will not lecture Germans about what they should do in order to support her foreign policy agenda. Seriously, I have seen a clip yesterday or the day before, don't know anymore in which BNR or essay, which for the first time has shown me, that she has been a bitch of quite some caliber since a long time. I guess her fighting the "right wing conspiracy" had been with her from very early on, and by doing so, she became herself what she was supposedly fighting against. I believe more and more that she is a dangerous candidate to have. So, I will check out and walk off.

Sorry, I have this nagging image in front of me, Hillary saying:
"You have to live with the oligarchy you have, and not the oligarchy you wished to have"
I mean, dear Democrats, get the picture, no one wants ANY oligarchy to live with. So, fuck your shit, dear Democrats. You are unable to fight for a system change, so you continue to serve your oligarchy. And that is NOT what any democrat should do.

Join a movement for system change. Fight oligarchy. And I don't care for ANY of your labels. You can label yourself as anything and it means nothing, as long as you don't fight seriously for a system change and against the oligarchic and corporate coup d'état.

dkmch, get some rest. your fighting spirit is needed. your body tells you to respect your body and rest. So, just do it. Hope you will recover soon. I got a shot against pneumonia recently and thought my doctor is a bit outlandish. Never heard about shots against pneumonia before. I took the shot, but thought it was weird. Too much medication around. But now I believe there might be something to it.. Tomorrow is another day.

I wished I had more nerves to read the resilience essays. My silence over there is not a sign that I have no interest in those essays. Contrary, I think I should study them all. May be after the primaries and elections are over.

And, btw, Don Midwest today had again very good comments and links in today's BNR.

Have all a good day.

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gulfgal98's picture

Thak you for all your great comments and observations. You always have a lot to add to the conversations.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Gerrit's picture

You always demonstrate great wisdom for us after such setbacks. We all need that, so thank you. Best wishes to you and yours,

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gulfgal98's picture

for a while but will be back later to check on comments. I will read and respond later. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

is a vital first step toward deconstructing it. Thanks for Bacevich quotes/link.

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gulfgal98's picture

was from 1998 and he hit the nail on the head. Thank you for your comment, CroneWit!

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

enhydra lutris's picture

it hurt.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

gulfgal98's picture

I think when history is viewed from a distance, Clinton will go down as one of the most destructive Presidents in modern times. I have zero love for either of the Clintons.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy