GOS could get a lot worse very soon

I'm a Bernie supporter, but I'm also a realist. While I don't understand how someone could vote for Hillary over Bernie, I also recognize that a lot of people are doing just that.

Bernie's path to the Democratic nomination is difficult, but not impossible at this point. However, if these three upcoming primaries go the way the polls are showing (New York, Maryland, and Pennsylvania), then any realistic chances that Bernie has are over.
Before you respond, I realize that the polls have consistently understated Bernie's support. Time after time, Bernie has outperformed expectations.
But I also know that outside of Michigan, Bernie has rarely overcome the kind of deficits he now has in Maryland and Pennsylvania. Even winning in New York would require a major surprise.

That being said, I was thinking about what it would do to the GOS.

First of all, a lot of Bernie supporters will become disheartened and disconnect, both here at C99P and TOP.
If you had looked at yesterday's Straw Poll at TOP, you would have seen that Hillary supporters had almost caught up to Bernie supporters for the first time.
Since this was the only Straw Poll since March 15th, you can probably see why.
So you can expect diaries that are content-less, tongue-kisses from Hillary supporters to dominate the rec list and FP of TOP. That'll be annoying, but not the worst part.

The worst part is that intolerance for anything anti-Hillary will increase many fold.
Think about it. Up until now it was a case of rallying around the party leader. Markos obviously made the "general election mode" call waaayyyy too early, and thus put his thumb on the scale.
But if Hillary takes NY, Pennsylvania and Maryland, then it really will be general election mode.

That means that instead of dissenters being Bernie fans, they will be suspected Trump fans/trolls.
If you think there is intolerance of progressives on TOP now, think about how intolerant things will get for suspected fans of a racist, misogynistic, fascist.
You ain't seen nothing yet. Even facts and NY Times headlines that don't praise Hillary will be suspect.
We might even see some Hillary trolls on C99P.

An even bigger problem is that this won't stop. Assuming that Hillary wins the general election (I don't think Trump or Cruz can win), she won't have any coat-tails. Congress will still be Republican. Right-wingers and independents will still hate her from Day 1.
She'll be under siege, and for the GOS that means more of "rally 'round the party leader".
Remember how when Obama won in 2008, there was a "shut up progressives and fall into line" undercurrent almost immediately, and that was with a huge Democratic majority in Congress.
How many loyalty tests will there be now?

My point is that unless Bernie can pull off a miracle comeback (and I'm crossing my fingers) TOP is going to be awful for a very long time.

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Cassiodorus's picture

and placed them in an archive:

https://cassiodorusblog.wordpress.com/about/

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"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate

LeChienHarry's picture

Some of the coolest things have been said in comments. And the whole thread has to hang in one piece to be meaningful. I haven't figured out how to extract those which mean the most to me.

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

I have nearly 1,500 diaries over there

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Cassiodorus's picture

I already had the book reviews organized, so I started with them. Then I broke the other diaries up into periods. Before and after July of last year, when I went to Binghamton NY, and before and after Occupy in 2011. I copied and pasted diaries onto a WordPress account like a madman and then deleted them like a madman. Some stuff I deleted because -- well, sometimes it's just better to forget.

With 1500 diaries that's more of a challenge. You may choose to create a "greatest hits" archive on a WordPress account and then add to it as time opens up.

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"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate

Deja's picture

Nyuck nyuck nyuck

Staff even replied.

It made me smile.

Here's the link until they pull it.
http://helpdesk.dailykos.com/discussions/problems/109313-missing-diaries-in-cassiodoruss-profile

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I am amazed at just how many brand new (cough) members post brilliant pro HRC diaries to flood the rec list and most of them all start with the words " I have lurked for decades but signed up today"

(Smile)

Whether Bernie WINS the nomination or not he and WE are not going away and if that means not posting on DK... Hey (shrug)

But until that time... MAKE NOISE and keep making it until daddy takes the noisemakers away (wink)

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Orwell was an optimist

wilderness voice's picture

lotlizard's picture

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tourniquet's picture

that there is a great deal of community on blogs. i've been involved (probably too deeply) in a few over the years. but here's the thing: it's not hard to let a blog go.

it seems like it's going to be, and omg-where-am-i-gonna-click when i sit down for a smoke now, etc etc. it's not, though.

i joined orangewater in early 2015 after lurking since the mid 2000s. it used to be my go-to for news, every morning, and boredom clicks. when the earnest writers left, however, or turned into shills, and the place turned into a 24 hour a day pie fight, daily kos fucking died. many just haven't realized it yet.

i thought it was going to be hard, but without the bookmark next to my normal three or four sites i check daily, i haven't missed it a bit. i went back once, the night i swore off, and clicked through the fp/rec list/etc, and was struck by how shit the writing was, and the hagiographical tenor of the site re: clinton. today, when i went over to lend some t/r to o&w, i noticed the rec list has like 5 different hillary safe space diaries under 5 different titles. hillary hang-out! hillary puppyblog! hillary clubhouse! hillary & coffee! the people's front of hillary!

yeah, i just want nothing to do with it. garbage in, garbage out. just cut the cord, people, there are better ways to waste your time. plus, being pissed isn't healthy.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

if you don't click on anything on the Front Page or anything to do with politics. There was a good piece (which of course sank like a stone on the Recent List) about chemists working on a test to determine percentages of cannabis in baked goods so that proper portions could be determined, important for both medical and recreational cannabis use. With the number of states legalizing either or both medical or recreational cannabis, there's definitely a need for scientific evaluations of products to avoid the Maureen Dowd scare tactics (where she ate a whole candy bar that contained multiple "servings").

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tourniquet's picture

and good info. i'm just not willing to dig through the mud for it, or give them the clicks, for that matter.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

MsGrin's picture

because it has had a lot of reach. I noticed a diary on a topic I had written about had a few dozen recs on it, but it was also shared on FB 31K times. Wow.

Too bad that influence got commercialized and flushed. I found community there in more than just politics. I'm sorry to see it die for what it was for me. I am deeply offended that there are so many PR identities over there now - sock puppets rather than humans. All the 'I've seen the light and switched to Hillary' diaries made it ever so clear in their formulaic-ness. There used to be people behind the monikers - now there are folks collecting cash in their spare time. It's a bit disheartening.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Armando posts at some other blog but didn't remember the name. I did so I went to see if he was actively posting there... He is. What I also found was a long list of recommended websites and blogs ... Blogs I had forgotten about but used to read back in the day

I clicked on a few links of old favs and found a whole CHITLOAD of excellent content.

Given the panama papers fiasco I bookmarked Marcy wheelers blog... I really loved following her reporting on legal matters.

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Orwell was an optimist

mimi's picture

in which readers and writers here would post their favorite political news blogs.

I have still to get organized in a way that I read regularly a certain amount of websites and blogs. I do not want to read too many, as I want to get myself to do other things but online reading.

What happens to TOP is not important to me. What happens to writers like MB and LP and some others is. Other than that, I couldn't care less what GOS will be. I think it's too much drama queenery about the whole issue. It's what happens on the ground, and not who is trending online. I am aware that for organizational purposes I have to adapt to the current technological tools used on the internet, but I think it's not given that the online perception about the campaign is really reflecting the on the ground feelings of the voters.

We will see.

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Euterpe2

Bluesee's picture

It was almost too easy to leave once I learned that it represented an agenda that I wanted nothing to do with.

This is now true of TOP. Although I still go there, I see it differently now.

I like this place, hope we can all help it thrive.

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Bernie is a win-win.

elenacarlena's picture

I thought it was just an online newspaper.

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Bluesee's picture

...they have a business model that I disagree with, in which they don't pay their contributors.

There were issues about how they portray the news, and how they slant it, years ago, so I dropped out. It's not just news, it's biased just like the AP, Fox News, and every other media I can think of in America today. I tend to avoid those sites / shows. I need a source I can trust. I feel like Diogenes, sometimes.

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Bernie is a win-win.

Pricknick's picture

it has been awful since before the orange god made his list of commandments.
They are already attacking sites that don't conform to their views so seeing them here wouldn't change anything. I don't roll easily for asshats.

chicago minx: Had Enough Right Wing BS Apr 09 · 02:45:59 PM
I looked at that caucus99 site.
It was dreary and dead...seems like whatever traffic they were supposedly going to get from Markos’ edict was already gone.

Pricknick: chicago minx Apr 09 · 03:38:56 PM
I’m sure they give a shit about your observation.
Many sites are now better than this crap fest.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Everyone starts small -- even DK didn't emerge fully developed like Aphrodite out of the half-shell. I signed up in the relatively early days of Scoop -- 4 digit UID, January 2004. Not saying that C99% is going to become the Big Blue Behemoth of the progressive Internets, but it's a good place to stay informed and motivated.

I've been doing a lot more reading of non-blog sites, sites with actual news. Alternet, Jacobin, a few others. Been keeping tabs on the LGBT blogs, especially with the rise in "bathroom bills" and "religious freedom" (which only applies if you're of the fundie Christian variety apparently). And dealing with Real Life issues as well.

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lunachickie's picture

near as I can tell. If I'm not logged in here, I don't see as much on the FP as I do when I'm logged in.

So when I saw that comment, I called her on it directly. Imagine my shock when she didn't respond.

Crickets. So crickets that I had to post the actual clip...

They're so damn cliquish, petty and childish over there. I'm pretty well done with them, unless I get on a jag because I let them piss me off, but that's not healthy either. That's ok, though--if Clinton wins, I'll be done with them, because it will be too insufferable to even click on.

I hope they're trolling here, too, because here, we can speak freely. So here's the deal--and I'm going to be quite frank, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone else, but my mind is well and truly made up at this point. If they think she's got my vote, fuck them and fuck her. It'll be a cold day in hell, and I truly do not give a shit who that "helps". I was almost ready to hold my nose and do it anyway, but these last few weeks, she lost me for good, no matter what. That crooked bitch, her disgusting husband (and her precious girlfriend, if that stuff about Huma is really true) will never, ever have my help, moving back to Washington to lord over us all. I will not vote for her. Will not. I will vote down ticket races and I write in Sanders if possible or else I leave that spot blank.

Guilt away. Flame away. Waste yer time on that if you'd like, but don't be disappointed when you don't sway me away from these notions. I'm done with her. I will fight whoever wins over her and I'll continue advocacy for sane and real progressives, until we can get rid of her corrupt ass.

The End.

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Christine.MI's picture

I totally agree with every word you wrote. Here are three of my own:

Henry.Fucking.Kissinger.

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lunachickie's picture

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Shahryar's picture

chicagominx and gchaucer2 enjoy saying rude things. I've got to tell you, gchaucer2 is really the worst Bernie supporter in the world! I know she supports Bernie. She said so! Yet every single comment she's made since, including that one, knocked Bernie and those who like him. I don't think she's doing his campaign much good!

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lunachickie's picture

ghaucer2 gives me a wide berth, I think mostly because she was a regular visitor to the GUS diaries--Gave Up Smoking. I started visiting in late 2013 and most of 2014, as I'd started vaping successfully and got off ciggies (for good, I might add--I never went back, I still vape, and nowhere near the levels I used to). And somehow, we managed to hit it off at least for that much.

And then I fell away from GUS--I'm a big proponent of the concept of "support groups" for stuff like that, and at the time, it was truly helpful, but then I got over that hump, you know? So I didn't need to visit as much, and pretty soon, I wasn't stopping by at all. And then I didn't see her around at all, for awhilel. And then I started seeing her shitting on Sanders supporters. I tried to engage a couple times, but she never budged off whatever position. She wasn't a dick about it, though, at least to me. She just would....go away.

It was surprising to me--and it kind of made me sad, but then again, there's a whole office full of people working for that little dick, and she's probably one of them, and it was all a ploy for whatever reason. Then it was like "ho-hum, live and learn".

CM is another story. Can't. Even.

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elenacarlena's picture

doesn't. We don't want her type here. That said, I'm not going to let any anonymous Internet blogger influence my vote in either direction. So I'm going to vote for Hill if she's the legitimate nominee. But I completely understand where you're coming from. If I wasn't a true believer in being anti-Republican, I'd say eff you to the Hill supporters over there and be happy to give them one more jab too.

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Citizen Of Earth's picture

But save me seat. Because I'm coming too! Woohoo.
Screw Hellery. And I hope everyone at the Clooney Bribe Dinner gets food poisoning. Biggrin

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

Haikukitty's picture

I said plenty of time online and in person that I would hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil - but suddenly I just. cannot. do. it.

Not one more time.

And her behavior has really made that decision easy for me. When she was who she was, I could have done it, but this fake pivoting to the left, stealing someone else's (cough) talking points while spreading lies... I could not physically make myself cast a vote for her, it would be the most dishonest thing I could do. So come what may, she'll do without my vote.

And anyone who says its a vote for Trump, etc. - I understand, I really do - but too bad. The DNC has clearly been shown who excites their base and where the momentum is - and if they choose otherwise, especially by using non-democratic superdelegate votes, they deserve to go down in flames.

Give us a candidate who doesn't suck or lose.

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Miep's picture

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

elenacarlena's picture

The worse it gets, the better this place gets. As long as TOP has a big audience I'll try to stay there, but I won't be reading Hill diaries. When it's down to a few people rattling around in their echo chamber, I'll be here. We can do community, we can do politics, we can do activism. Not sure what Johnny and Joe will do with millions of visitors, but I'm sure they'll figure it out.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Don't believe the hype .... Late last night I followed a blog by a supposed brand new user who admitted he (she)'had another DK SN and was really a very old user just using a new SN... The person said their old SN was now dormant but this morning that person was posting in that supposed dormant SN. Smile

One member one vote only seems to be the rule for us Bernie supporters. Lol

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Orwell was an optimist

Citizen Of Earth's picture

DNC rigged and gamed the caucuses and primaries. Kos could tell effin' elfing to change the poll numbers to fit his narrative. So I wouldn't put too much trust in anything you see a dKos now -- except for known progressive's diaries.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

(1) Bernie is closing in NY
(2) Let's focus now on helping Bernie win NY!
(3) If Bernie wins the nomination DKOS will be of certain use
(4) If HRC wins, DKOS will turn completely into DHRC and will be of no more use for progressives, progressives will then have to build a movement/party with own websites such as this one
(5) Let's focus now on helping Bernie win NY!!!
Here a link from Makahalis's subreddit about supporting Bernie
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/comments/4e5yhg/ultimate_a...

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The establishment is powerful. If we want to change this world, we have to unite first. El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido.

Cassiodorus's picture

the stinky attitudes of the site owner were kept out of sight.

Now that Markos has tried to tip the scales against Sanders, turned his back on the political revolution, and given the tacit endorsement to rule by money over popular rule, the true uselessness of Daily Kos has come into full view.

Let's drag his better readers over here and quit the place entirely.

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"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate

MarilynW's picture

way back when, when he was supposedly "crashing the gates" and he was already inside them.

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To thine own self be true.

Pluto's Republic's picture

Did you receive a document?

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
MarilynW's picture

the consultant fees.

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To thine own self be true.

He has always been on the take and 'pushing' those people who PAID HIM! You owe it to yourself to read these two articles.

From an earlier post:

DK i$ on Hillary'$ $ide: Take the Red Pill and find out!
RED PILL TIME?

From "The Matrix" when Morpheus urges Neo to make a choice as to what reality in which he wants to live. Does he want to know how things really are or go back to a 'comfortable' life of illusion?:

Morpheus says to Neo:

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—
(http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/ballot_box/2005/01/blogg...)
you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/06/meet-new-bosses?page=2)
the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

(Haven't figured out how to do links here yet, sorry.)

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Sea Turtle

hecate's picture

is just a guy who volunteered for the US Army, to become a serial killer, wrote publicly about how homos are really really icky, was going to join the CIA because of how liberal it is, but instead started a blog for Democrats, and now he has many monies, which he uses to buy really big fish tanks, except he doesn't even put fish in them, just plants. He also says "dick" a lot.

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mimi's picture

redacted.

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hecate's picture

who enters the United States military is transformed into a serial killer. That is the explicit and intended purpose of basic training. And there is no deprogramming, when people muster out.

Beria played the piano. Napoleon enjoyed Germany. Vito Corleone loved his children. Hannibal Lecter was smart. Cortez wasn't white.

Nah. I'm not your enemy. ; )

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mimi's picture

redacted

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hecate's picture

have to deprogram themselves. Some do.

No need to go after the president. He was just doing what presidents do. All the presidents send people to wars. Just part of the job. And the people, they make it easy for the presidents, because they always go right ahead, and go to the wars. The wars, they are never going to end, by picking the "right" president. They are going to end when all the people refuse to have anything more to do with that shit. When the president says: "Go to the war," and all the people say, "No thank you. Here: you can have your rifle back. I'm going home."

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mimi's picture

redacted.

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What does that mean? tx. confused

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Sea Turtle

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

SnappleBC's picture

The site cannot ever really be of use because it cannot be trusted. It is not "reality based". It is not progressive. It is, effectively, BlueNationReview.

I find no use for a site where actual conversation is stifled in the name of correctness.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

NonnyO's picture

The "correctness" of the one-tenth of one percent's? That "correctness" always comes with green (money).

The "correctness" of the 99% - and given the numbers represented, that could be fifty or a hundred things that are "correct," depending on the people and where they live or the life circumstances.

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

stevej's picture

Sander's support but I could be wrong. The people I speak to see Sanders as a conduit rather than as a hero. Those that support him do so because they see that the campaign is part of something much bigger - that is not going to die on the vine as soon as 2017 rolls around.

The Sanders campaign is not the first installment in this story. OWS and BLM are both connected as are other movements both national and international. We do not know what will be next all we do know is that something will be next.

And so does the establishment.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Pluto's Republic's picture

In fact, that is how it is working.

As Bernie continues the Primaries in every state, (regardless of what happens in New York, et al.) Americans, nationwide, are being exposed to his message about the austerity that is crushing them. Bernie's entire aim is to empower the people by showing them how they are being harmed and their society diminished, and sharing his vision of how they can turn that around, take control, and create a better life for all Americans. Not incrementally — but starting right now!

The primary votes and delegates don't really mean anything. Getting the message to all Americans, does.

Both Parties intend to ignore the primary winners if they don't like them. Trump will not be running GOP nominee if he wins the primaries, and neither will Bernie. Hillary will be running against someone like Jeb, who will represent the GOP.

Sanders powerful message across the country is the real threat to the corrupt establishment Parties. The continuation of Sanders' primary campaign is also systematically destroying Hillary. It is collapsing the waves of probability between her and a future world where she becomes the President of the United States.

In the end, even Hillary is irrelevant.

Bernie Sanders is locked in a struggle with the back-stabbing Golem that the Democratic Party has become. That level of change can only come from the outside (or an outsider) because the two Party system is too corrupt to reform itself from within.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
hester's picture

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Don't believe everything you think.

stevej's picture

You put my thoughts onto the screen much better than I manage Smile

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Citizen Of Earth's picture

The Caucuses And Primaries have been rigged to suppress and steal votes. I doubt the Dems will let Bernie get the nomination under any circumstances. A true win will be for the Revolution to walk away from the party and start its own Progressive party or join the Greens.

All this happy talk about Bernie moving the Dem Party to the Left is utter horse shit. The Dems are a Neo-liberal party (possibly with the exception of Warren and a literal handful). They are not going to budge.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

polkageist's picture

Steve J, Pluto, et. al.,

I think you're right. The wave is getting bigger but probably won't crest until society becomes even worse, but it will crest. It really seems like now is the time to educate while trying to win so that people can feel some excitement while they learn. I hope I'm wrong and that Bernie pulls it off, but, if not, we are further along than before. Unlike so many times before, we have a right wing populace upset about many of the same issues we are upset about. Probably not much help, but you never know. I just hope our corporate masters are having to pour milk on their ulcers many times a day.

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-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

shaharazade's picture

go the way of the Dodo and become extinct. People other then the delusional or downright authoritarian types are hip to their jive. This primary has been an eyeopener as the owners of the place have been so arrogant with their rigging the game that everyone with a brain not washed, the fearful/ hateful, or who those who are doing okay in the 'free market' game are growing in numbers, globally. 43% and rising are now indies. Bernie or bust is just the tip of the iceberg. This election is just the start of the process of withdrawing consent. It's been a long time coming and although Obama was a ringer the movement he engendered is not going away. It's now using Bernie campaign as a vehicle. Why would any Bernie supporter vote for Hillary the Hun? Fear of the RW? Gimmie a break. How many times can the complicit Dems. scary cry wolf while still implementing the same damn thing sans the theocracy.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

This election is just the start of the process of withdrawing consent.

After this, Presidential elections will never be the same The Parties should go public, IPO, and sell shares on the NYSE. People are going to wander off.

As for "withdrawing consent", I've been thinking about that. In fact, I asked folks who would know: "Is there a minimum number of people that must vote in a Presidential Election to make it legitimate? "No minimum," I was told. In the end, we came up with the number 211. That's how many people in the nation would have to vote to elect a President.

Frankly, I suspect the only reason the Government lets people vote in Federal elections is that it is a massive money pump for the commercial sectors they invest in. The Presidential election alone will cost $4 billion dollars in 2016, mostly lavished on their close personal corporations and advisors.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
mimi's picture

legitimate, then this should be used by outside forces to shame the US constitution into hell and ask for a rewrite. I mean if that is the extent as to which the elections in the US are a spectacle kabuki theater, one needs to shut down the theater and close it down.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

The fact that it does not give people the Right to vote in a Federal election (for President) — is a bigger problem. I believe it is now the only constitution in the world that is classified as one that doesn't directly confer voting rights upon the people. It's the government's choice whether or not you vote. Not your choice. Were it a world-class constitution, it would be up to the state to prove fraud and it would be unconstitutional to turn anyone away from the polls, with or without identification.

And I don't even mention that shameful shortcoming in my usual litany about the obsolete US Slave-Owners Constitution, although I did write an essay on American's infamous lack of voting rights.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
mimi's picture

I read Pluto's Republic comments that deal with the US constitution religiously. Smile

I am collecting your comments and essays ... I just have to re-read them often, because the faculties upstairs in my head don't work as well as they should. Thanks for all you write. I always enjoy it and try to learn as much as I can from it. I just made the comment because I couldn't believe where the number 211 came from. I found that too amazing to be really true.

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shaharazade's picture

On the other hand throughout history humans do bring these assholes down by withdrawing consent. It isn't just confined to America this disgust and discontent with this new/ old order it's just another round in the ongoing endless battle that humans have always had to deal with one way or another. The monsters are always going to be here but so are the people who recognize them what ever guise they wear and what ever siren songs they sing. They are not inevitable as neither politics or history are static. I do believe out of the ashes comes the new. And on and on it goes as it's a yin yang thing that never gets resolved it's infinite and forever. Sisyphus come to mind.. We just keep rolling that stone up that hill.

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lunachickie's picture

I think this is the year they start counting backwards, as in "up until the 2016 cycle, complicit Dems could cry wolf and get away with it".

In other words, the answer is "however many years they did it, through 2015"...

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coming to c99p, when we're through there will be no reason to leave.

Trolls wont last long here without a backup posse or a slanted rating system to misuse and abuse.

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JtC, one question which comes to my mind after the autocratic DKOS experience:
Will there be a democratic/participative management of this site?
I think that would be a huge motivation for many progressives.

I formulated the question in a way which can lead to misunderstandings:
What I meant is: In which way will it be made clear for every new user, fleeing from GOS, that this site is very different from GOS regarding democratic/participative management?

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The establishment is powerful. If we want to change this world, we have to unite first. El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido.

Pluto's Republic's picture

…activities at c99 within the community?

They seem invisible to me.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

you would know that there always has been, more so than any other blog that I know of.

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Sure, no offense meant and not meant as a criticism but as a question/suggestion. The management of the site does a great job. The question was a general one.
If it would be described somewhere how the management/organization works particpatively/democratically, one could contrast it nicely to GOS.

This is related to the essay's question about (building) an alterantive to GOS.

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The establishment is powerful. If we want to change this world, we have to unite first. El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido.

why I don't poke my head out from behind the curtain very often.

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mimi's picture

I want our own C99p and GOS become a thing of the past.

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LeChienHarry's picture

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

lunachickie's picture

Awesome, in fact. I have a feeling many of us know a real troll when we see one, and--well, at least for me, I can say--so far the few obvioustroll irritants I've seen here are posters I never seem to see more than once. That means one of two things: they got bored or they got banned! Either way, the rest of us win, so thank you JtC and staff/admins, for whatever you're doing and however you're doing it Smile

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mjsmeme's picture

The serious folks @TOP will move over here &/or to KossacksforSanders@Redddit, if they haven't already. + I haven't gotten the feeling that the Bernie people on this site (and around the country) are going to take an establishment 'win' sitting down, at least not for long. TOP served a purpose - bringing some really smart creative people together and giving them a place to share their thoughts. But it hasn't kept pace with the times - now in 2016 after 8 years of a disappointing presidency its endorsement of a rigged status quo is simply unacceptable, and makes it obsolete. The decree separated the progressives from the rest of the crew and that's not such a bad thing after all. I was a lurker who read it mulitple times daily for a lot of years and watched it deteriorate over the past 6 mos to a place that became impossible to spend any time on without asking myself who are these rude bullying people and why would I want to be where they are?

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mouselander's picture

are showing their true colors. It's certainly no accident that Moulitsas started out as a Reagan Republican. Because objectively, there really is not a hell of a lot of difference between a Reagan Republican and a Clinton Democrat. Take away a few hot button social issues like abortion and gay rights, and Reaganism and Clintonism are almost interchangeable. No wonder neocon icons like Robert Kagan and Henry Kissinger are so jazzed about the idea of a Hillary presidency. She is, after all, one of them. Heck, even Dick Cheney is saying nice things about her these days.

So for Moulitsas, it wasn't much of a jump at all to go from being a right-wing Reagan Republican to being a right-wing Clinton Democrat. And his blog very much reflects that sensibility. Yet, he still likes to pretend that DailyKos is a "progressive" blog - the better, I suppose, to induce the remaining "New Deal" Democrats into believing that we're all playing for the same team, and that once the primary process has inevitably flushed up to the top another neoliberal corporate lackey, it behooves all of us to lay our differences aside and work to defeat the evil Republicans.

By such means does our "one party pretending to be two" political system perpetuate itself. And I've really come to believe that those actual progressives who continue to actively participate and contribute content to DK are in fact helping Kos perpetrate his giant con game. As far as I'm concerned, the best way to regard DailyKos is as being akin to RedState with a slighter lighter tinge. Because for all intents and purposes, that in fact is exactly what it is.

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inactive account

polkageist's picture

Hey Mouselander, I see you use of quotation marks for sarcastic purpose, but why put "New Deal" in quotes like it isn't real or is second class. I'm a New Deal person and so is Bernie. Neither one of us is helping the bandits rob the country. The New Deal was and is a fine blueprint for us. It just needs updating. Don't let the vandals steal that handle like so many other good words such as "liberal".
So what didn't I get? I usually just nod when I read your writing, so I must be missing your point.

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-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

mouselander's picture

I didn't mean to imply there was anything false or hypocritical about that term, I just put it in quotes because it seemed, at this point in history, somewhat archaic. But I can see your point, in that most people would equate quotation marks as implicitly questioning the validity or honesty of whatever word or expression they enclose. I'll try to keep that in mind in the future. I certainly don't have anything against people who self-identify as New Deal Democrats. That period represents to my mind the high water mark of the Democratic Party.

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inactive account

lunachickie's picture

quotation marks came to always be associated with something detrimental or bad (or not existing or fake or whatever); I use them for far, far more than that, and always have. Then again, I'm a well-into-middle-aged English major, so that might have something to do with it. Is it really just me? Wink

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polkageist's picture

Lunachickie, I'm a well-into-old-age English major but this use of quotation marks usually means "this word or phrase does not mean what it usually means when I put it in quotation marks." Therefore it doesn't mean it's always bad but rather that one shouldn't think of the word in its usual usage. Thus, there is always some ambiguity in this usage which the rest of the passage should clarify. It didn't happen in this paragraph for me. Hence, my question. And, yes, I can be pedantic, but I wish people on blogs would use fewer acronyms and better spelling. But I abhor thread hijacking, so will quit now while I'm behind.

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-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

NonnyO's picture

Thomas Frank admonishes, 'Listen, Liberal!' How the Democratic Party failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38JNg210L24

15 minutes in, Frank says Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich had secret meetings about how to privatize Social Security, Clinton phrased it "save Social Security" in the 1998 SOTU.

Altho the news about Lewinsky broke a day or two before that SOTU, the day after the media took off and ran with it, so Bill & Newt never got to talk the nation into privatizing Social Security. That became Dumbya's "thing" - and he certainly had no success with senior citizens when he tried to talk to them directly at an assisted living facility. They weren't budging on their opinions that it was a bad idea. I don't know if anyone saw the same interview on the news, but Dumbya was stymied when he couldn't talk them into giving up what little money they had.

Obama has used the phrase "privatize Social Security" a couple of times through the years, as well as mentions of "fixing Social Security" or "fixing entitlement programs," but that has fallen on deaf ears. So far, so good. We've been saved from George Carlin's prediction that they're coming for our Social Security, that they will get all of it sooner or later.

Why must we get truthful, real news from our comedic geniuses, or from foreign presses?!?!? [Yes, that's a rhetorical question. I know the answer, but think it's a crying shame we can't have honest media sources tell us the truth.]

You have to watch the Thomas Frank video before you watch the 1998 SOTU so you get the relevance and know what to listen for.

The 1998 State of the Union (Address to a Joint Session of the Congress), January 27, 1998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-YIP45s1R4

13 minutes in, Clinton says "Save Social Security first" and proceeds to say meetings will be held for community input. HOW saving Social Security will be accomplished is not detailed, nor is the phrase "privatize Social Security" uttered.
28:+ Clinton says he will renew his "request for fast track negotiating authority necessary to open more new markets & create more new jobs." Sound familiar?!?!?

While I've saved a bajillion Bernie links and other political links, I never save Hillary links. What are her EXACT words when she mentions "protecting" Social Security? Anything close to what her hubby said (presumably without any detailed plans, like privatizing Social Security or turning the Social Security's Trust Fund with two Trillion+++ in it over to Wall Street).

Still, it was unnerving to hear that the people who thought of that disastrous idea to "privatize Social Security" came from meetings with a Democratic president who had such favorable ratings at the time and the hypocritical, lying Rethuglican Speaker of the House. Now Bill's favor is clearly compromised and lacking while promoting his wife who will almost certainly follow in her husband's footsteps in many/most respects - and the close relationship between Hillary and Wall Street makes sense if they are anticipating getting their felonious greedy fingers of over two trillion of our dollars to mysteriously "lose" to offshore accounts.

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

hecate's picture

"gangrene could get a lot worse very soon."

Just cut the thing off.

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for a couple of weeks now. And I mostly don't miss it at all. And yes, the anger at the stupid is something I don't need anymore of so why go there?

Great point about the Repugnant majority in Congress and a Hillary Presidency - total gridlock works well for the plutocrats, always has, always will.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

hester's picture

diaries over there and have been shunned, or disregarded b/c of the new diktat. In general in life, change, wanted or not, is good in the long run. C99 is finding it's way and i'm delighted to be here to chime in and give my 2 cents. (when issues in my irl settle down, I hope I can post essays). This place is great and going to get greater. Time, tlc and patience.

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Don't believe everything you think.

LeChienHarry's picture

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

Would AT LEAST go there to rec the BNR

TODAY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN WEEKS the BNR has fallen off the rec list

It be hooves all of us to make sure the BNR stays on that list

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Orwell was an optimist

mimi's picture

the BNR?

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tapu dali's picture

because the rec list algorithm is "secret" and variable to "prevent users gaming it." In addition, I'm sure Kos, et al., can manually promote (or drop) posts from the wreck list.

But adding one's recs and tips surely can't hurt.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

lunachickie's picture

I've tried to keep up with it, but have fallen off. I hate given that little jagoff the hits, but it's important, I think, even if just symbolic in effort.

I hope the traffic is falling off. That might explain the turn into the muck the 44 staff members took the blog direction in for the last month or so. The King of All Dumbasses did it to himself...

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If you want to see something amazing, look here before the 3/14 window disappears. He went from close to 2 million visits a day to 500K visits and he's still struggling around that number.

Successful dk diarists who find themselves on the wrong side of the fence have a lot to think about. Do they leave or do they stay? Staying and engaging is masochistic. Staying and not engaging is akin to somnophilia. Leaving means starting all over.

LD has done a yeoman's job on the BNR. Mahakali and the folks at Reddit deserve a medal for all of their volunteer work. If and when Bernie has to move into Plan B, Mahakali will be free to change and adapt anyway she pleases. c99 is its own boss. LD not so much. BNR is on dkos in the middle of a war zone trying to be Switzerland. I don't know why he stays. I know he talks about moving to his own blog. That is certainly one option. I prefer he didn't. The thing we all like about dailykos is its size. If we keep splitting up, we'll never build a competitive replacement.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Bollox Ref's picture

but people going over to rec stuff just drives up Little Napoleon's traffic.

Bite the bullet, and let the place slide into the basement.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

...of the average traffic. it was a three day spike 3/12-3/14 that was the weekend before Kos' 3/15 dictate so i think many DK members were logging on one last time. number of views are routinely 500,000 to 1,000,000 before that spike but if you click on the 90 day spread, you can see visually that the number of views appear to be down about a third since before that weekend.

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I believe links to FB and time spent browsing are what drive the bottom line in monetizing the site's success after the redesign. I was told that comments couldn't be collapsed and browsed quickly b/c that would defeat some of the new metrics. At the moment, the place is toxic. I've never seen it so nuts, and I've been there since '05.

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